This wiki page is my collection of factoids as I try to understand what Dahut is and on what basis it is a Perl Monger group. Feel free to add information to this wiki which helps us Perl Monger admin types  understand. Thanks. --[[User:Jhannah|Jhannah]] 16:27, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

dahut.pm.org DNS got shut off. Here's [[User:Perigrin|Perigrin]]'s backup on his server: http://dahut.prather.org/index.pl

==Con==

* Spam on the website (now removed).
* The group is non-geographical... so almost no meetings?
* No one except [[User:Perigrin|Perigrin]] has posted to the mailing list since Nov 2007. If no one uses the mailing list why does it exist?

==Pro==

 11:12 <@mst> jhannah: well, people have been attending YAPCs as representatives
              thereof for some time
 11:12 <@mst> jhannah: it's another metamonger group like the outlying
              #london.pm people
 11:12 < gbjk> There's a group for #l.pm outlyers?
 11:13 <@mst> gbjk: well, I'm sure tannie considers herself an l.pm member for
              e.g.
 11:14 <@mst> jhannah: castaway is also a defacto member but she just had to
              shut her machine down
 11:15 <@mst> jhannah: and Bender is official group leader, an ordained
              minister, and probably more important to the smooth running of
              irc.perl.org than any given ircd.
 11:16 <@mst> jhannah: the entire thing's a perl community in-joke. but it's
              -our- in-joke.
 11:16 <@mst> jhannah: it feels like you deleted an Acme:: module off CPAN for
              not being a proper distribution with an active maintainer
 11:17 <@mst> and if any of the relevant resources need cleanup, I will happily
              take over hosting for them.
 11:18 <@mst> jhannah: also, one of the pause admins is a member, but he won't
              be able to weight in due to being busy on honeymoon (darobin)
 11:29 <@mst> jhannah: basically, I'm not sure it should technically have been
              allowed to be created
 11:29 <@mst> jhannah: but people attend conferences as dahut.pm members
 11:29  * Bender hides from the chaotic noise
 11:30 <@mst> jhannah: so as a long-standing semi-group semi-running-joke, I
              think it should continue to exist
 11:30 <@mst> jhannah: it's part of the perl sense of humour :)
 11:35 <@mst> jhannah: I don't find the mailing list convincing to continue to exist, 
              necessarily
 11:35 <@mst> jhannah: but the dahut.pm.org site itself should.

<blockquote>
Subject: 	Dahut.pm petition<br>	
Date: 	Fri, 8 Aug 2008 20:21:15 +0000 (UTC)<br>
From: 	Matt Sergeant <matt(at)sergeant(dot)org><br><br>

Jay,<br><br>

Dahut.pm is a loose collection of old school perl geeks who communicate with each other infrequently just as friends. We probably don't *really* need a .pm group, and we probably don't *really* need a mailing list from you guys - we're perfectly capable of setting one up ourselves,but we have contributed significantly to the growth of perl (see my CPAN dir for example) and we try and still talk occasionally. We're typical guys really - even forgetting to send each other christmas cards.
<br><br>
So please, let us keep our friendship group on pm.org. We promise we won't start a bar brawl.
<br><br>
Matt. 
</blockquote>

 13:54 <Nacho> btw, before I wandered off, I wanted to let you know why dahut.pm.org
               -- as a wiki or a mailing list -- is inactive, while the group is still
               valid
 13:55 <Nacho> we mostly meet on IRC, but that happens almost every day.  We talk
               about perl all the time, probably more so than geographically-oriented
               groups
 13:56 <jhannah> what channel(s)?
 13:56 <Nacho> #axkit-dahut
 13:56 <jhannah> all irc.perl.org?
 13:56 <Nacho> yup
 13:56 <Nacho> there's aso a lot of people who also talk on #dbix, #moose, etc.
 13:57 <jhannah> cool. thx for the info.   ya, mst is already slapping me around.  :)

<blockquote>
From: Christoph Wild <christoph(dot)wild(at)i-med(dot)ac(dot)at><br>
Date: August 10, 2008 6:12:58 AM CDT
<br><br>
Hi Jay,
<br><br>
as Chris Prather wrote to our mailing list the Perl Monger support team has
gotten the impression that our group is a dead one as there are very few
posts on the mailing list.
<br><br>
For me personally the group of people organised in Dahut PM has been an
invaluable source of information on Perl and xml in the last years. Had I
not had the means to talk to people like Kip, Chris, or Matt (or everyone
else) I would not have been able to push those technologies here at i-med
(and before that at the LFU) in the way I have. Right now - apart from our
main website - we are using a lot of Perl stuff to run our applications.
<br><br>
In addition I think that one of the great things about Dahut PM is the fact
that it's members are coming from all over the planet and from different
language backgrounds. The common interest connecting us is - you might guess
it - Perl ;)
<br><br>
A lot of our communication is done via IRC but we also do use the mailing
list. I therefore would greatly appreciate it if we could stay an official
Perl Mongers Group even if we are not as high profile (and volume) as London
PM or the likes.
<br><br>
If you need more information please do feel free to contact me.
<br><br>
Best regards,
<br><br>
Chris
</blockquote>
-------
<blockquote>
From: Kjetil Kjernsmo <kjetil(at)kjernsmo(dot)net><br>
Date: August 10, 2008 1:34:17 PM CDT
<br><br>
Hay Jay! ;-)
<br><br>
Yup, there is a lot of life in among dahuts. We happen to use IRC a lot 
more than mailing lists, though. Also, we're at an age where people are 
getting married and getting kids. And I've been forced to write Java 
right now. That will hopefull change soon.
<br><br>
Still, dahut.pm certainly is useful to me, as it happens, there are two 
of us in W3C's eGov Interest Group, so we're taking over the worlds 
Governments! ;-)
<br><br>
Cheers,
<br><br>
Kjetil
</blockquote>
-------------
<blockquote>
From: Michael Kröll <michael(dot)kroell(at)uibk(dot)ac(dot)at><br>
Date: August 10, 2008 2:21:29 PM CDT
<br><br>
Jay,
<br><br>
Being a member of Dahut.pm made me visit my first YAPC::Europe in Paris
2003. Being non-geographical, group members surely did not meet
physically as in a regular group, but virtually more or less daily at #axkit-dahut @irc.perl.org
A lot of CPAN module implementations, not only of the ones authored by
Dahut.pm members, have been - and still are - discussed there.
<br><br>
For next week's YAPC::Europe a Dahut.pm BOF is planned again.
<br><br>
Despite most of the activity of Dahut.pm is channeled via IRC and not
more "traditional" channels like E-Mail lists and/or a Wiki, it is very
much active and therefore I hope that the official status as a monger
group would be preserved!
<br><br>
Michael Kröll
</blockquote>

------------------
<blockquote>
From: Kip Hampton <khampton(at)totalcinema(dot)com><br>
Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2008 13:04:52 -0700
<br><br>
Hi Jay.
<br><br>
I heard over the weekend that there was a plan afoot to shut down the 
Dahut.pm Perl Mongers group. I'm writing in opposition to that plan to 
pull the plug.
<br><br>
Its true that, unlike, say, Boston.pm or Paris.pm, the Dahut group is 
"virtual". Members are scattered all over the globe and, as a practical 
matter, we don't do some of the things that "regular" .pms do (no 
monthly technical or social meetings, no local community outreach to 
other technical or service organizations, etc.). Despite our scattershot 
geographical distribution, however, the Dahuts fit every other criterion 
 of an active and activist Perl community: we coordinate on maintaining 
and developing modules for CPAN, we work together on both the topics and 
content of the books, presentations, and other educational materials 
that we present to the community at large, and, perhaps most 
importantly, we're always the funnest table at the bar during YAPC and 
OSCON conferences.
<br><br>
It is also true that our membership is small and that our .pm mailing 
list and wiki have fallen into disuse. Mostly, we're victims of our own 
success. While most members chat with one another daily on IRC, the 
reality is that the each member of the original Dahut core has gone on 
to distinguish themselves both as Perl hackers and in the broader 
technical world and we simply don't have the time to kick things around 
that we used to. These days, we're more likely to pair off on specific 
projects (or get one another hired in as an issue expert) than we are to 
go after more generic projects as group.
<br><br>
I ask you to please reconsider your decision to pull the plug on 
Dahut.pm. We may be a pack of irreverent absurdists but the Dahuts are 
no joke. As for the mailing list and wiki, I'm willing to personally 
commit time to make sure that the yard stays mowed and the papers don't 
pile up on the front steps.
<br><br>
Thanks for your consideration,<br>
Kip Hampton, Dahut.pm member in good standing.
<br><br>
ps: I should note that, as a group, the Dahuts are not above naked 
bribery and/or extortion. This means that, should your decision go our 
way, you can expect to drink for free at least one night at the next 
conf you attend with a significant Dahut contingent and that you can 
trust our entire membership to state publicly that any rumors relating 
to your special fondness for woodchucks are categorically not true and 
anyway it was just that once and you said you were sorry.
</blockquote>

==Petition to keep Dahut alive==

* Via RT: [[User:Perigrin|Perigrin]]
* Via IRC: mst, Nacho
* Via this wiki: castaway, xtoph, ct
* Via email: Christoph Wild, Kjetil Kjernsmo, Michael Kröll